Seduction Community

The Seduction Community generally refers to a loose-knit online community of men who aim to improve their success with women, through self-improvement and a greater understanding of social psychologyhttp://comment.independent.co.uk/columnists_m_z/rowan_pelling/article310137.ece.

The seduction community is made up of a network of Internet forums and groups, such as alt.seduction.fast, the moderated version of which currently reports a membership of 20,000http://www.houstonpress.com/Issues/2005-06-02/news/feature_full.html, and numerous regional 'lairs', of which there are more than a hundred worldwidehttp://lairlist.comhttp://www.fastseduction.com/lairpage.shtml. Members refer to it simply as 'the community'http://observer.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,6903,1148354,00.html. Many of these men call themselves "pickup artists."

The seduction community has received an increasing amount of press-coverage, especially since the publication of The Game by Neil Strauss (known as "Style" in the community), which reached the New York Times Bestsellers list.

History

The seduction community was born in the late 1980's after Ross Jeffries adapted a form of Neuro Linguistic Programming (NLP) towards seduction. Students of Jeffries founded the non-commercial Usenet newsgroup alt.seduction.fast which in turn spawned a network of other Internet discussion forums, email lists, blogs, and other websites where seduction techniques could be exchanged."He Aims! He Shoots! Yes!!", Neil Strauss, New York Times, 25 January 2004http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/02.08.06/nlp-0606.html.

When alt.seduction.fast became overwhelmed with Internet spam, a moderated, commercial alternative was created by a company called Learn the Skills Corporation (see: alt.seduction.fast), which is now one of the largest forums in the scene. While the site now has heavy commercial advertising, it is free to use.

Other seduction teachers emerged with competing 'methods', almost of all of whom rejected the use of NLP and hypnotic language. The emergent theories coalesced on the usenet newsgroups before being systematically taught by teachers. The two most notable of these new teachers were Mystery, and David DeAngelo. Mystery is a close-up magician who applied the social skills learned performing magic to the art of seduction, creating the Mystery Method. David DeAngelo is a former student of Ross Jeffries, and his teachings revolve around a technique called 'Cocky and Funny'. These, and other teachers, are often referred to as "seduction gurus" or "gurus."http://www.montrealmirror.com/2005/071405/news2.html Other notable "seduction gurus" go by names such as Juggler, Badboy, and Tyler Durden (see #Commercialization).

Concepts

The prevailing view in the community is that much of the current dating advice for men is fundamentally flawedhttp://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin/masfwiki.cgi?Introduction. For example, the notion that men should attempt to woo women by spending money on them (e.g. buying drinks, presents, jewelry), is rejected and referred to as 'supplication'http://www.fastseduction.com/asf-faq.shtml#q046 or nice guy syndrome. The community also rejects advice based on constantly complimenting women on their beauty or flattering themhttp://www.montrealmirror.com/2005/071405/news2.html, which is also claimed to be counterproductive.

Most active members of the seduction community work on their 'game' (seduction skills) by improving their confidence and self-esteem (termed 'inner game'), their social skills and understanding of female psychology ('outer game') and their physical appearance (physical fitness, fashion sense, grooming). 'Game' is refined through regular practice http://www.macleans.ca/culture/books/article.jsp?content=20050829_111329_111329, with the belief that the skills needed to interact with women can be learned.

The seduction community has a unique set of acronyms and jargon for describing male-female dynamics and social interactionhttp://www.montrealmirror.com/2005/071405/news2.html. For example, "AFC" stands for "Average Frustrated Chump": a term coined by Ross Jeffries to describe males who are clueless and incompetent with women). "AMOG" stands for "Alpha-Male Other Guy" (or Alpha-Male Of the Group): a reference to a competing male considered a threat. Some of the concepts in the community are borrowed from other disciplines, such as the concept of social proof from the psychology of influence, and various concepts from sociobiology and evolutionary psychology (such as the term "alpha male"). Books such as The Red Queen by Matt Ridley, Sperm Wars by Robin Baker, and The Mating Mind by Geoffrey Miller are frequently cited in the community.

Practices

In The Game, Neil Strauss documents various practices that occur in the seduction community. Members of the community believe in achieving success with women through scientific and empirical means, rather than by relying on good looks or intuitive instinct, or by following societal courtship conventions. The practice of going out with the purpose of meeting females is known as 'sarging', a term invented by Ross Jeffries. Sarging occurs in clubs, bars, malls, on the street, in coffee shops, and just about anywhere else. A pickup artist can sarge alone, or with a wingman.

Approaching and opening

Pickup artists begin an interaction with women they don't know by approaching them. There are many different types of "approaches." Approaches can be directed towards women who are in groups, or alone, and pickup artists can approach on their own, or with their wingmen. Approaching can be "direct" (in communicating sexual interest), or "indirect." Approaching can also happen when a woman gives an "approach invitation" (abbreviated "AI"), a favorable body language signal, like eye contact or a smile. "Cold approaching" occurs when the "target" has not given such a notice to the pickup artist. Pickup artists approach either verbally, or nonverbally. Initiating a conversation is called "opening," and whatever the pickup artist says while opening is called an "opener." Openers can be "canned" (prepared in advance), or improvised. Members of the seduction community often practice approaching and opening repetitively; some have done thousands of approaches. Strauss describes a pickup artist who did 125 approaches in one day.Strauss, Neil, The Game: Penetrating the Secret Society of Pickup Artists (2005), ISBN 0060554738, p. 298

Interacting with women

After approaching and opening, pickup artists attempt to engage the women in conversation. The moment where a woman (or group) decides that they want to continue the interaction with the pickup artist is called the "hook point" (origin: Neil Strauss). Members of the seduction community employ various techniques for developing attraction and rapport with the women they are having a conversation with (and the groups these women are in). Techniques can be "canned" (pre-scripted), or "natural" (improvised). These techniques include:

"Negs," i.e. remarks, such as backhanded compliments, that are designed to actively demonstrate disinterest and "falsely disqualify" the pickup artists as potential suitors. (main article: Mystery Method)
"Cocky & Funny," i.e. statements that combine humor and arrogance. (main article: David DeAngelo)
"Kino," i.e. physical touching (origin: Ross Jeffries, from the word kinesthesia)
Using routines, i.e. pre-scripted conversations, or actions. An example would be a pickup artist telling a story (sometimes true, sometimes verbatim from a pickup guru) about himself which has been scripted in advance.
Patterns, i.e. hypnotic language derived from sales and NLP designed to influence a woman's subconcious mind, to seduce her, or to otherwise condition her without her knowlege. Patterning can be done 'off-the-cuff' though is usually completely pre-scripted. (Ross Jeffries, Major Mark, Bishop, many others)
Humorous banter
"Eliciting values," i.e. finding out what is important to a person, and what they desire. Eliciting values is a technique from NLP for making patterns and other techniques more effective at influencing a person. Eliciting values is also used to screen for traits that the pickup artist is looking for in women he interacts with, and to assess compatibility if he is looking for a relationship. (origin: Richard Bandler and John Grinder)
"AMOG destroyers," (or "AMOGing," "AMOG tactics") i.e. dealing with competing males in the group with backhanded compliments or subtle jibes, such as picking an item of clothing they are wearing and making fun of them for it. "AMOG" stands for "Alpha Male Other Guy," and "AMOG" can also be used as a verb: to "AMOG" someone. AMOG destroyers are designed to establish oneself as the dominant person in the group. (Origin: Tyler Durden.) AMOGing tactics are controversial within the community; see #Controversy within the community.

Different styles of pickup and seduction use different degrees of structuring interactions. For example, Mystery Method employs a high degree of structure and conceptualizes interaction with women in a series of three stages (Attraction, Comfort, and Seduction, which are each subdivided into three stages also).

Field Reports

Some pickup artists in the community write up "Field Reports" ("FRs") and "Lay Reports" ("LRs") detailing their experiences with women which they share on Internet forums for constructive criticism, or to serve as examples for others.Strauss, Neil, The Game: Penetrating the Secret Society of Pickup Artists (2005), ISBN 0060554738. Others, notably Mysteryhttp://www.mysterymethod.com and Stevie PUAhttp://www.geocities.com/stevie_pua have released 'sarge' audio of themselves 'sarging' in the field as a model to others. Some audio has included 'full closes' (i.e. sex).

Media coverage

The seduction community has been receiving increasing media attention http://www.latimes.com/features/lifestyle/cl-et-game31aug31,0,1782296.story? http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,20029-1766167,00.html http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/s2.cfm?id=1923372005 http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/09/25/LVGPHEQA941.DTL, especially since the publication of Neil Strauss' article on the community in the New York Times http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F00610FB355D0C768EDDA80894DC404482, and of The Game. Response to the community has been varied. The seduction community has been branded as misogynistic, and a review of The Game characterizes the community as "a puerile cult of sexual conquest," and calls its tactics "sinister" and "pathetic." http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/09/25/LVGPHEQA941.DTL http://books.guardian.co.uk/reviews/biography/0,6121,1577189,00.html Yet an article in the Houston Press claims that the seduction community "isn't the lechfest it might sound like." The article quotes the webmaster of www.fastseduction.com defending the community: "It's no more deceptive than push-up bras or heels or going to the gym to work out…This isn't just a game of words and seduction, it's an overall life improvement." http://www.houstonpress.com/Issues/2005-06-02/news/feature_full.html Strauss claims that "I really think all of these routines and manipulations are just a way for a guy to get his foot in the door so that if a woman connects with him, she can still choose him," and that seduction techniques "can be used for good or evil!" http://www.macleans.ca/culture/books/article.jsp?content=20050829_111329_111329 http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/s2.cfm?id=1923372005

Columbia Pictures is making a movie based on The Gamehttp://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002074610, and there is a prospective reality TV show The First Three Minuteshttp://www.run2three.com/f3m.htm in the works, in which pickup artists from the seduction community help other men to pickup and seduce women.

The episode "The Score" in season 4 of Miami involves a guru teaching his students.

Controversy within the community

Despite being called a "community," the seduction community is not homogenous and contains various schools and thought and internal controversies. For example, in The Game, Neil Strauss claims that some of the men in the community are becoming what he calls "social robots."

Some guys give up everything -- school, work, even GFs -- to learn to sarge better. But all these things ALLOW you to sarge better, because they make you a more COMPLETE person.
A problem I've noticed amongst some of the most dedicated posters here, especially those who got into ASF in their teens or early 20s, is that they have INVENTED themselves through this theory. They are, to some degree, SOCIAL ROBOTS. And, after a great 20 minute set, it begins to show through to an HB for "Hot Babe" that you don't have anything MORE going for you. The other problem with being a social robot is that you start to thing that everyone else around you is one too, and begin to read TOO MUCH into their actions.
^*
So, what I'm trying to say in short is that ASF and the PU lifestyle can give you SO much -- I know it's given me so much -- but it can take away a lot too. You can end up becoming just a one-dimensional person, a social robot.Neil Strauss' original "Social Robots" post

An example of "social robot" behavior that Strauss discusses in The Game is the excessive or inappropriate use of "AMOG destroyers," even on friendly males, and the attitude of viewing all other men as threats.

Commercialization

The media attention and rapid growth of the seduction community has brought a number of issues into sharp relief. The first is commercialization: The number of commercial web sites with advertisements selling seduction-related products and services has skyrocketted, particularly since 2004. With this commercialization is a dramatic increase in Internet spam. Separating reliable sources of information from ineffective ones has become more difficult for newcomers.

The second problem is conflict: the increased commercial competition has taken a lot of the focus away from the subject of seduction and onto competition between rival companies. A number of the less reputable of these companies practice attack-marketing to attract attention to themselves. There are many seduction-related blogs that specialize in community gossip and negative reviews about the competition. According to one nonprofit source, "the original spirit of the community is, however, still a non-commercial one where brother helps brother and secret information is still passed around from hand to hand." http://lairlist.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17&Itemid=30#Criticisms

References

Bibliography

Strauss, Neil, The Game: Penetrating the Secret Society of Pickup Artists (2005), ISBN 0060554738

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